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Re: Boeing

Postby Thumper » Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:36 pm

Juan has a new update along with accurate clarifications about the status of the review of the systems in question on the MAX aircraft. It really bugs me how ALL the mainstream media continually screw the facts up.

Now more than ever, with the media under constant attack they should strive to present timely, accurate, non-biased content. And like Juan says in this video, CNN mis reported it and the other major outlets just parroted it and passed it along. The real correct information is out there, obviously. Juan found it. For F^(k's sake, it's your job to find it and report it.... :evil:

Mentour Pilot discusses another inaccuracy in reporting about "dangerous faulty parts" on all the MAX aircraft. And that Boeing has completely lost it with regards to safety. Wrong. In the intense investigations and inspections of the aircraft, Boeing discovered that certain parts, namely the slat tracks, were designed to be heat treated, when in fact the sub contractors actually delivered non heat treated products. This situation does not cause the wings to fall off or the plane to crash immediately, it means they probably won't make it through the rated number of cycles. So they will just need to be replaced quicker hopefully with improved parts. Pilots train for non-functional and asymmetric flap and slat conditions. So even an in flight failure would not cause a significantly risky situation. And as Mentour points out, this is an example of the "system" working. They found a condition that causes concern through careful investigation, reported it, and now will abide by new guidelines that came out as a result of these investigations and reporting. They're going to fix this issue and make the plane safer BEFORE there was even an issue.

The entire mainline reporting on the MAX has completely sucked from the very beginning through today. That's very disappointing.
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Re: Boeing

Postby SciFiFisher » Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:52 pm

There are a number of challenges for media reporting these days. My guess is that they lack the technical expertise or access to it to do a decent job of really knowing the truth. And they are stuck in a world where sensationalism and scaring people makes more money than real honest news reporting. :(
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Re: Boeing

Postby geonuc » Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:12 am

Reporters don't need technical expertise, or not much anyway. They just need to find the people who do have the right expertise.
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Re: Boeing

Postby SciFiFisher » Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:06 am

geonuc wrote:Reporters don't need technical expertise, or not much anyway. They just need to find the people who do have the right expertise.


Yes. In theory that is how it is supposed to work. :lol:
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Re: Boeing

Postby Thumper » Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:48 am

Juan, Mentour Pilot, and others are reporting accurately. They're posting Youtube vidoes. If you're just going to parrot someone else's reporting, repost those videos. :roll:
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Re: Boeing

Postby geonuc » Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:53 pm

So, I watched both videos (Juan, Mentour). Good stuff. Makes me want to go to the Grass Valley Air Show and Brewfest!

Anyway, yeah. Reporting sucks. Both guys mention 'failures' that aren't really so. In the case of the trim rate, the system is working as designed but maybe the design needs to be tweaked (increase trim response rate). CNN and others report this as a failure, giving the unknowing public the idea that the system crashed or something. And Mentour reminds us that a properly functioning QA/QC system (something I am vary familiar with) exhibits good response to out-of-spec components and processes and initiates remedial measures. That's not a failure either.

Mentour's dog is pretty chill.
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Re: Boeing

Postby Thumper » Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:02 pm

Yeah, I'm involved with QA/QC as well.
Mentour gets some good comments about his dog. :P
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Re: Boeing

Postby Thumper » Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:44 pm

Watching the Air Crash Investigations episode about the Lion Air Crash so that presumably means the final report it out. I had heard that the MAX was in final testing for acceptance and reinstatement to flying status. I look forward to reading a digest of that (I'm certain I couldn't comprehend all of the actual report findings.) I just wonder what companies and the public will feel about bringing the planes back into their fleet and flying on them. I remember interviews with flyers two years ago that said they would actively determine the make and model of the aircraft they were going to be flying on and refusing to fly if it was a MAX. So it's been about two years. That's pretty normal for a final report.
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Re: Boeing

Postby SciFiFisher » Fri Nov 12, 2021 2:35 am

A twist in the plot. I can't tell from the story if Boeing threw him under the bus.

Boeing's former 737 MAX test pilot, Mark Forkner, was indicted for fraud Thursday for allegedly misleading regulators about problems tied to the aircraft's two fatal crashes. The ex-chief technical pilot is the first Boeing employee to be charged over the 737 Max's failures.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/boeing- ... d=80561974
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Re: Boeing

Postby Thumper » Fri Nov 12, 2021 1:49 pm

Interesting, I'll have to check it out. But a test pilot being the only guy in a huge project of a huge organization faulted for a major problem. That sounds fishy. As if NASA would have been able to blame one person for the Apollo 1 fire, or the Challenger disaster. Inconceivable.
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Re: Boeing

Postby Thumper » Fri Nov 12, 2021 2:59 pm

I read the article. Still sounds like they need a scapegoat on the world stage. Someone the world can blame for the deaths. The article talked about all kinds of internal Boeing communications years before the crashes that included concerns over the Max program. I was able to find an NTSB report on the Max, it's 245 pages, I'll get back with you... :o
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Re: Boeing

Postby SciFiFisher » Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:00 am

Thumper wrote:Interesting, I'll have to check it out. But a test pilot being the only guy in a huge project of a huge organization faulted for a major problem. That sounds fishy. As if NASA would have been able to blame one person for the Apollo 1 fire, or the Challenger disaster. Inconceivable.


I don't think that word means what you think it does. :mrgreen:
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Re: Boeing

Postby Thumper » Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:12 pm

Which one "fishy" or "inconceivable"? :P

Brief response after partially reading two reports. I'm coming around to blaming Boeing more for the accidents. Not totally, but it appears they had bad oversight, poor supervision of the project, and knew about issues with MCAS years before the crashes. Accidents are the result of a series of small mistakes, failures, and oversights. This doesn't excuse the pilots of both accident aircraft for mismanaging the emergencies, it doesn't excuse the pilots on the flight before for continuing the flight and mis reporting the failure. And it doesn't excuse the maintenance crews for improperly repairing the AOA sensor and then mis reporting it in the repair log.

However, Chesley Sullenberger testified that piloting is serious, dangerous business. We owe it to them and all the passengers in their care to give them the safest, most reliable aircraft possible. It certainly seems Boeing did not do this with the MAX and the FAA did not do enough in their oversight.
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Re: Boeing

Postby SciFiFisher » Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:30 am

"inconceivable" :lol:
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Re: Boeing

Postby Sigma_Orionis » Fri Dec 17, 2021 5:09 pm

Sic Transit Gloria Mundi
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Re: Boeing

Postby grapes » Fri Dec 17, 2021 7:33 pm

No company executive faces imprisonment for the misconduct that the biz has acknowledged. Boeing fired CEO Dennis Muilenburg in late 2019 over the 737 Max accidents and he departed with $62m in compensation.

The Justice Department in October indicted Mark A. Forkner, a former Boeing 737 MAX chief technical pilot, for fraud. The government contends Forkner provided the FAA with false, inaccurate, and incomplete information about MCAS and that led to the misunderstandings that contributed to the two crashes.

Forkner was chief technical pilot. What exactly is that?
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Re: Boeing

Postby Sigma_Orionis » Fri Dec 17, 2021 8:12 pm

Sounds to me like the highest ranking technical guy in the project. IOW: the designated scapegoat.
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Re: Boeing

Postby Thumper » Wed Dec 29, 2021 4:25 pm

grapes wrote:
No company executive faces imprisonment for the misconduct that the biz has acknowledged. Boeing fired CEO Dennis Muilenburg in late 2019 over the 737 Max accidents and he departed with $62m in compensation.

The Justice Department in October indicted Mark A. Forkner, a former Boeing 737 MAX chief technical pilot, for fraud. The government contends Forkner provided the FAA with false, inaccurate, and incomplete information about MCAS and that led to the misunderstandings that contributed to the two crashes.

Forkner was chief technical pilot. What exactly is that?


Boeing's job posting for a 747 Chief Technical Pilot
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Re: Boeing

Postby Thumper » Wed Dec 29, 2021 4:29 pm

Sigma_Orionis wrote:Boeing Whistleblower report

I've only read part of the article and unfortunately at least the opening paragraphs are overly simplistic. It laid complete blame for the two crashes on MCAS. And that is false. I hope to read it in it's entirety. But the article was written by a reporter. I realize there is a link to an actual report.
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Re: Boeing

Postby Sigma_Orionis » Sun Jan 02, 2022 2:08 am

Thumper wrote:
Sigma_Orionis wrote:Boeing Whistleblower report

I've only read part of the article and unfortunately at least the opening paragraphs are overly simplistic. It laid complete blame for the two crashes on MCAS. And that is false. I hope to read it in it's entirety. But the article was written by a reporter. I realize there is a link to an actual report.


Not surprising, The Register is an IT publication. If I were you I'd ignore the article and read the report.
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