Unpaid interns in NY not protected from sexual harassment

[Cyborg Girl]

Yes really. I am so sick of this weasely shit.

[SciFiFisher]

So, would you be willing to sign my "Volunteer Labor/Intern Concealed Carry" petition?

[Rommie]

Unpaid internships are pretty awful- I'm lucky to be in a field where they're severely frowned upon. Lots of my other friends on the other hand had to basically finance a summer or semester or year of working for "college credit," usually not in a cheap city either. For example, I always found it crazy that lots of Washington DC relies on unpaid interns, which of course means only the rich kids tend to work there and the cycle repeats itself.

I found it very telling that now that more and more people are suing for unpaid wages most of my friends' reactions who have done them is to laugh and say that's what internships are like, suck it up. Doesn't take a genius to realize the ones who can't afford to then will never do them.

[SciFiFisher]

Unpaid internships are pretty awful- I'm lucky to be in a field where they're severely frowned upon. Lots of my other friends on the other hand had to basically finance a summer or semester or year of working for "college credit," usually not in a cheap city either. For example, I always found it crazy that lots of Washington DC relies on unpaid interns, which of course means only the rich kids tend to work there and the cycle repeats itself.

I found it very telling that now that more and more people are suing for unpaid wages most of my friends' reactions who have done them is to laugh and say that's what internships are like, suck it up. Doesn't take a genius to realize the ones who can't afford to then will never do them.

creates an exclusive self selecting group of people. I can see where that might cause some disconnect with the rest of the world.

[Rommie]

Unpaid internships are pretty awful- I'm lucky to be in a field where they're severely frowned upon. Lots of my other friends on the other hand had to basically finance a summer or semester or year of working for "college credit," usually not in a cheap city either. For example, I always found it crazy that lots of Washington DC relies on unpaid interns, which of course means only the rich kids tend to work there and the cycle repeats itself.

I found it very telling that now that more and more people are suing for unpaid wages most of my friends' reactions who have done them is to laugh and say that's what internships are like, suck it up. Doesn't take a genius to realize the ones who can't afford to then will never do them.

creates an exclusive self selecting group of people. I can see where that might cause some disconnect with the rest of the world.

Pretty much. It reminds me of how my best friend from high school went to Yale so when I visited her there she asked me what differences I saw between the students there and where I was. I told her truthfully that people seemed equally bright/nice/ all those things one hopes from college students, but all her friends had just spent their summers working in orphanages in Africa or at unpaid internships in NYC or something like that, and it wasn't so much that my friends wouldn't have loved to do the same but we were more likely to spend the summer working for an engineering company or busing tables or what not because the money was needed. Food for thought.

[FZR1KG]

Can't sue for sexual harassment?
Sue them for organised slavery.

I don't know why this allowed in the US.
Its a joke.
Its also illegal in Oz as I found out years ago.

[Swift]

Can't sue for sexual harassment?
Sue them for organised slavery.

I don't know why this allowed in the US.
Its a joke.
Its also illegal in Oz as I found out years ago.

I'm with FZ. I'm sorry for this particular woman, but this is the least of the problems for the vast majority of unpaid interns. The much bigger problem is the scam of squeezing unpaid labor out of them, on the hoax that they may eventually get a real job out of it.

Frankly, it is more evidence of the continuing deterioration of labor practices in the US and the end of effective labor unions.

[Rommie]

Geez guys, you should be happy for the opportunity to be slave labor for a few years! What's wrong with you?!

[Sigma_Orionis]

Next thing you're going to say is that Feudalism is great

[Swift]

Swift don't know nothing about birthing no babies.

[SciFiFisher]

Next thing you're going to say is that Feudalism is great

It is...provided you are the guy on the top of the org chart.

[Swift]

Next thing you're going to say is that Feudalism is great

The Borg really hated that system.

Oh come on, everyone has heard "Resistance is Feudal".

[Sigma_Orionis]

That pun measured .93785 in the SciFiFisher scale

[SciFiFisher]

That pun measured .93785 in the SciFiFisher scale

Indeed!

[geonuc]

... and it wasn't so much that my friends wouldn't have loved to do the same but we were more likely to spend the summer working for an engineering company or busing tables or what not because the money was needed. Food for thought.

Hey! Are you implying we abuse our summer slaves, er ... interns? Harrumph!

[Rommie]

Just saw this article in the NYT and summarizes the issue as I've heard it from folks (though with a heavy "trying to get into journalism" bent- it is the NYT after all).

Basically I can't understand how on Earth it's acceptable to not pay people for a semester when they're living in the most expensive city in the country, but others ignore this fact and are accusing those others of "ruining it for everyone."

[SciFiFisher]

Internships and payment seem to be an interesting thought process. As a nurse I was expected to perform "training" in the form of doing nursing work for hospitals and in other nursing settings. Often the training consisted of doing the work of the nurse on duty while being supervised either by a nursing instructor or by the nurse whose work I was doing. I actually paid the college to let me do this free work in order to get a grade that allowed me to become an RN. I worked several hundred unpaid hours over of the course of several years of nursing education.

What is interesting is that in some professions there seems to be a belief that being paid for intern work is somehow "unethical" or "unprofessional". At one time nursing was so bad about it that hospitals actually had training programs that consisted of 30-40 hours of working in the hospital with a number of hours each week that were didactic classes. These hospitals had free unpaid labor for 3 years and then conferred a Diploma degree up the nurse. They did provide room and board for the nurses. The programs were often very strict and ran by Catholic nuns who were deemed too harsh for Catholic parochial schools One of my old nursing managers was a graduate of one of the Diploma programs. She was denied time off to attend her grandmothers funeral. Her grandmother had died just before graduation and the Dean of the program told her if she took a week off to attend the funeral and be with family that she would have to start the program over from the beginning. Interestingly many of the nurses who graduated from these programs were among the best nurses in the profession.


The diploma programs have all been discontinued by the hospitals who ran them over issues such as unpaid laborers, college accreditation, and the ability of the community college system to produce nurses cheaper and faster than the hospitals could.

[FZR1KG]

Interestingly many of the nurses who graduated from these programs were among the best nurses in the profession.

Trained slaves have always made the best workers.
They take shit, do exactly what they are told with no complaint and have no issue with being treated sub human.
Just make no mistake, they were taught to be slaves and continue to act that way even when they no longer are.

[SciFiFisher]

Interestingly many of the nurses who graduated from these programs were among the best nurses in the profession.

Trained slaves have always made the best workers.
They take shit, do exactly what they are told with no complaint and have no issue with being treated sub human.
Just make no mistake, they were taught to be slaves and continue to act that way even when they no longer are.

Yet, the common wisdom says that slavery doesn't work for skilled labor. While much of what nursing does is not what I what deem skilled labor there are also large areas that require critical thinking and strong clinical skills which are very skilled. I have always presumed that nursing schools switched from such a heavy emphasis on "on the job training" to theoretical learning models not because it made better critical thinkers but because it was cheaper once they were forced to start paying for the slave labor. But, maybe that is my cynical side showing.

[cid]

Next thing you're going to say is that Feudalism is great

The Borg really hated that system.

Oh come on, everyone has heard "Resistance is Feudal".

No.
Resistance is Voltage divided by Current.

[Sigma_Orionis]

Thus spake Mr. DC circuitry

[Rommie]

Well guys, I'm glad a respected economist wrote a column with a solution to unpaid internships!

Oh wait, you mean he suggested the government offer student loans to cover them? I mean, why might people have a problem with paying to go into debt for an unpaid job?