Dutch Racism

[Swift]

I actually got one of the books after that but found I didn't think it that funny, which was disappointing as he was a funny guy and I've come across essays he's done that I liked. Maybe I should attempt another?

I have one of his books too; don't recall the title, but it is a collection of essays about his childhood and growing up. Some of it is amazingly funny. But he is also brutally frank and some of what he writes, I found rather disturbing, so he is a mixed bag.

[pumpkinpi]

David Sedaris is funny as hell. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Saw him in Amsterdam a year ago, front row seats for a TV show. Think I posted the link here, it was great fun.

I actually got one of the books after that but found I didn't think it that funny, which was disappointing as he was a funny guy and I've come across essays he's done that I liked. Maybe I should attempt another?

Try audio books or podcasts from This American Life. The stories are always funnier when you hear them in his voice.

I've listened to so many he's read that when he has new bits in, say, the New Yorker, I imagine it in his voice.

By the way, he has a great story in the most recent issue about his sister who committed suicide last spring. He was able to make a tragic story funny in an appropriate way.

[FZR1KG]

Best totally ignorant racist remark I've ever heard was my ex-bosses wife (half asian half white) looks me straight in the eye and say's, "How can I be racist? Just look at me", referring to her mixed heritage.

[Rommie]

Best totally ignorant racist remark I've ever heard was my ex-bosses wife (half asian half white) looks me straight in the eye and say's, "How can I be racist? Just look at me", referring to her mixed heritage.

Everyone's a little bit racist sometiiiiiimes, doesn't mean we go around committing hate criiiimes!

[Sigma_Orionis]

Best totally ignorant racist remark I've ever heard was my ex-bosses wife (half asian half white) looks me straight in the eye and say's, "How can I be racist? Just look at me", referring to her mixed heritage.

Everyone's a little bit racist sometiiiiiimes, doesn't mean we go around committing hate criiiimes!

Not so, we poor, spiritually superior Latin-Americans are not racist, that's an imperialist capitalist invention.

[Swift]

Best totally ignorant racist remark I've ever heard was my ex-bosses wife (half asian half white) looks me straight in the eye and say's, "How can I be racist? Just look at me", referring to her mixed heritage.

Everyone's a little bit racist sometiiiiiimes, doesn't mean we go around committing hate criiiimes!

Not so, we poor, spiritually superior Latin-Americans are not racist, that's an imperialist capitalist invention.

I know Sigma was making a joke, but there is a strong human "tradition" to picking some group to discriminate against. It is often not based on race (and sometimes the definition of race isn't the Western or US definition of race). It has often been on religion, ethnic group, or caste.

For example, in Japan there is the discrimination against those who worked with dead things: leather workers, butchers, undertakers (Burakumin), or the caste system in India.

I guess deep inside we are still little hunter-gatherer clans, living in caves, hating the clan in the next cave over.

[Sigma_Orionis]

Having a common enemy is a useful tool to unite disparate groups, IT managers use it all the time.

[The Supreme Canuck]

I guess deep inside we are still little hunter-gatherer clans, living in caves, hating the clan in the next cave over.

Yep. I'm always amazed when I go to a movie or concert or whatever that we're able to get so many chimpanzees in one room, jam-packed close together, without them tearing each other apart. It's an accomplishment.

[Swift]

I guess deep inside we are still little hunter-gatherer clans, living in caves, hating the clan in the next cave over.

Yep. I'm always amazed when I go to a movie or concert or whatever that we're able to get so many chimpanzees in one room, jam-packed close together, without them tearing each other apart. It's an accomplishment.

Good thing you watch movies with chimpanzees, because I can tell you from experience that humans aren't that well behaved.

[Swift]

Having a common enemy is a useful tool to unite disparate groups, IT managers use it all the time.

Yes, IIRC, to unite their workers, IT managers call that group "users" or "customers".

[Sigma_Orionis]

That's what the CIO does, you should see what happens when a Development Team meets a Production Team.....

[Sigma_Orionis]

And of course it had to hit the news.....

Calling time on Black Pete fun in the Netherlands

[Rommie]

Yeah, I was out of town for it, but I find it interesting how they basically decided this year to not have the gold hoop earrings anymore. Because THAT is clearly racist but the rest isn't, ya know?!

[FZR1KG]

Golden earring. Radar love

One of the 70's classics.

[Morrolan]

Golden earring. Radar love

One of the 70's classics.

oh, yeah!!

[FZR1KG]

Best driving song ever!

[Rommie]

So yeah, this happened. (For those who can't view, there are a LOT of racist jokes against a Chinese contestant on Holland's Got Talent.)

Oh, but a large Dutch reaction is those who lodged complaints are overreacting and we should combat "real racism" instead. (Like this incident.) Not making this up- apparently many don't see how the two might be related.

[geonuc]

Apparently many Dutch feel they are fully capable of restricting their racism to off-color jokes and not let it wander into substantial discrimination, such as with hiring practices. Yeah, right.

[FZR1KG]

That judge was a real asshole treating the contestant like that.
If I was the contestant I would have just said, "fluk you".

[Morrolan]

this guy is a bit of a bully who's decided that he can mask his bullying by pretending he's the funniest guy around.

never liked him or his so-called humour.

[The Supreme Canuck]

As an interesting aside, this happened:

An emotional Joachim Stroink fought back tears Monday afternoon as he apologized for a photo he posted of himself posing with the controversial blackface Dutch character Zwarte Piet.

"I do acknowledge that the whole blackface culture, there is no place for that in Nova Scotia, nor in our culture. There was no malicious intent. This is a Dutch tradition I grew up with and never in my deepest heart thought that this would be portrayed in this manner," said the Halifax MLA.

"Looking back, I guess I can see how the blackface prospect is unacceptable in today's culture and society."

[...]

Stroink, who is a first-term Liberal member of the legislative assembly in Nova Scotia, said the backlash stunned him.

"It's been incredibly hard. I didn't sign up for this. I did this because I wanted a better Nova Scotia," he said about entering politics. "Finding the balance between an MLA and being Joachim Stroink, I feel that that's gone."

He met with Tony Ince, the minister for African Nova Scotian affairs, said he understands why the photo upset people. He hopes it can become an educational moment about bridging the two cultures, he added.

"I want to be able to celebrate this tradition and maybe Zwarte Piet is no longer part of this tradition. That's a discussion the Dutch community has to derive on their own, hopefully with the help of myself and Minister Ince."

So it looks like Zwarte Piet doesn't fly up here in Canada at all. Though I think it is interesting that, reading the article, it seems that the guy genuinely didn't think there was a racial element to the character. You grow up with a thing, you don't see it for what it is, I suppose.

[Rommie]

Oh, for sure- the reason most Dutch people are so upset about people suggesting racial overtones in Zwarte Piet, in my experience, is because it genuinely was an innocent children's holiday for them.

But then, part of getting older and being a multi-cultural society likely has something to do with realizing things we didn't know as innocent children can affect and hurt others around us, no? (I'm sure most kids who watched Disney's Songs of the South don't know Uncle Remus was upsetting to many for example.)

[Rommie]

So how about today we did what can best be described as "elaborate Secret Santa" with my work friends and there's a Brazilian in our department who has been very vocal in how this entire thing is racist. So someone got him a Zwarte Piet makeup set- you buy them in stores here, it's basically a kit of blackface, red lipstick, and a dorky hat, and made him put it on. Complete with a note that said shit like "we [the Piets] have such a fun time delivering presents, so we don't mind if we're black!"

Imagine a room of a few dozen astronomy PhDs sitting around awkward as fuck, with a few people getting more than a little upset and one or two even saying "this is a bit racist, isn't it?"

WTF Dutch people.

[The Supreme Canuck]

Good lord...

[FZR1KG]

WTF is more like it.