Dutch Racism

[SciFi Chick]

Song of the South is nothing like this zwarte piet character.

[Sigma_Orionis]

So how about today we did what can best be described as "elaborate Secret Santa" with my work friends and there's a Brazilian in our department who has been very vocal in how this entire thing is racist. So someone got him a Zwarte Piet makeup set- you buy them in stores here, it's basically a kit of blackface, red lipstick, and a dorky hat, and made him put it on. Complete with a note that said shit like "we [the Piets] have such a fun time delivering presents, so we don't mind if we're black!"

Imagine a room of a few dozen astronomy PhDs sitting around awkward as fuck, with a few people getting more than a little upset and one or two even saying "this is a bit racist, isn't it?"

WTF Dutch people.

Tsk Tsk Tsk, so much for multiculturalism. Those particular folks are starting to sound sound like the French, pretty "liberal" (in the sense you gringos use for that word) but only with regards to matters outside their country.

[Morrolan]

So how about today we did what can best be described as "elaborate Secret Santa" with my work friends and there's a Brazilian in our department who has been very vocal in how this entire thing is racist. So someone got him a Zwarte Piet makeup set- you buy them in stores here, it's basically a kit of blackface, red lipstick, and a dorky hat, and made him put it on. Complete with a note that said shit like "we [the Piets] have such a fun time delivering presents, so we don't mind if we're black!"

Imagine a room of a few dozen astronomy PhDs sitting around awkward as fuck, with a few people getting more than a little upset and one or two even saying "this is a bit racist, isn't it?"

WTF Dutch people.

wow... only read this now. WTF, indeed.

i can't even begin to say how stupid, thoughtless and tasteless this is. and i am Dutch...

[Rommie]

So how about today we did what can best be described as "elaborate Secret Santa" with my work friends and there's a Brazilian in our department who has been very vocal in how this entire thing is racist. So someone got him a Zwarte Piet makeup set- you buy them in stores here, it's basically a kit of blackface, red lipstick, and a dorky hat, and made him put it on. Complete with a note that said shit like "we [the Piets] have such a fun time delivering presents, so we don't mind if we're black!"

Imagine a room of a few dozen astronomy PhDs sitting around awkward as fuck, with a few people getting more than a little upset and one or two even saying "this is a bit racist, isn't it?"

WTF Dutch people.

wow... only read this now. WTF, indeed.

i can't even begin to say how stupid, thoughtless and tasteless this is. and i am Dutch...

Thanks.

The thing that is so weird about all this too is how the next day at the coffee table in the institute you will inevitably have some Dutch people who will say "that wasn't racist!" and then think you're the one with a problem if you point out it was.

Whatever, Christmas time is done and we won't have to confront this again until next year.

[squ1d]

You Americans and your "Europeans" generalizations and your superior attitudes to racism.

Bahahahah.

On the subject of generalizations, if you think the Dutch are racist, try their colonial descendents in South Africa, most of whom, since Apartheid ended, seem to live in Perth and talk alot about blowing up Palestinians (?!).

But seriously, that Zwarte Piet stuff is ridiculously bad. Many Australians seem similarly oblivious to the offensiveness of blackface.

[FZR1KG]

Blackface is offensive!?

[SciFi Chick]

Blackface is offensive!?

[Sigma_Orionis]

I guess Zee likes Al Jolson

[Rommie]

Apparently they're going to change it this year. Maybe. link

I mainly include the link for the comments if anyone's in a headbanging mood. I find them pretty common for what you tend to hear on this.

[squ1d]

Reading about the origins of this character, it should be either abolished altogether, or replaced with this guy

[Rommie]

No, because Krampus is German. I don't know if you heard, but the Dutch and German don't exactly get along all the time especially when the Dutch think German culture is taking over.

We did do Krampus a bit as Hungarians when I was growing up though. Namely when I was 7 years old I remember I was deemed a "bad kid" that year (I know you are all shocked that I probably wasn't really- I was doing heinous things like running off from piano lessons without saying goodbye) so that year on St Nick's Day when we put out our shoes my brother and sister both got giant chocolate St Nick's... and I got a Krampus one less than half that size. Little kid wake up call!

These days my brother and I often exchange little Krampus puppets or little golden switches you can buy in the Christmas markets in Hungary though.

[Swift]

I don't know if I have to explain this for the non-Americans, but there is an American expression "go Dutch". When you are on a first date, instead of the guy paying for everything, if the woman agrees to split the cost, you say you "went Dutch". I have no clue as to the origin of the expression.

Whenever I see this thread title, I think that Dutch racism is when both sides are equally racist. So, for example, the Blacks would have a white-face honky guy who helps Black Santa.

[FZR1KG]

I never understood racism or sexism.
I just see totally equal people.
As an example, if I'm talking to a woman, I stare at her breasts.
Because if I was talking to a man, that would not be insulting to the guy.
If she gets upset, then she's obviously the sexist one and wears low cut tops just entrap some poor innocent guy.
I naturally point this out but, it never seems to work out the way it should.
Usually it degenerates into her physically assaulting and then battering me with a slap.
Total hypocrisy since she sure hates men hitting women!!!

[Rommie]

I don't know if I have to explain this for the non-Americans, but there is an American expression "go Dutch". When you are on a first date, instead of the guy paying for everything, if the woman agrees to split the cost, you say you "went Dutch". I have no clue as to the origin of the expression.

As someone who has dated the Dutch, it probably started as it's pretty common on such dates (the Dutch are kinda cheap in general). Hungarians actually have a similar expression, but has to do with Scots.

[FZR1KG]

Some men's mentality sadly is that they are paying for sex if they pay for dinner.
Go get a hooker is my response but most places make prostitution illegal.

[Rommie]

Some men's mentality sadly is that they are paying for sex if they pay for dinner.
Go get a hooker is my response but most places make prostitution illegal.

Nope, it's Holland- I assure you here it's just the men being cheap. Usually if I'm comped it's because it's a guy who does freelance and knows he can claim it for business expenses.

[Swift]

I just see totally equal people.
As an example, if I'm talking to a woman, I stare at her breasts.

Your first sentence would only be true if you stare equally at each breast, and if you stare at both large and small breasts. If you have a preference for staring at large, left breasts (for example), you might be a racist.

[FZR1KG]

I just see totally equal people.
As an example, if I'm talking to a woman, I stare at her breasts.

Your first sentence would only be true if you stare equally at each breast, and if you stare at both large and small breasts. If you have a preference for staring at large, left breasts (for example), you might be a racist.

I scan equally and devote the right amount of time to each for careful observation.
I do tend to lean on the left a bit though but it's notch in the middle that gets my attention the most. lol

[Swift]

I just see totally equal people.
As an example, if I'm talking to a woman, I stare at her breasts.

Your first sentence would only be true if you stare equally at each breast, and if you stare at both large and small breasts. If you have a preference for staring at large, left breasts (for example), you might be a racist.

I scan equally and devote the right amount of time to each for careful observation.
I do tend to lean on the left a bit though but it's notch in the middle that gets my attention the most. lol

I have to admit to a bit of an ethical quandary myself - do I use numerical equality or volumetric equality?

In numerical equality, I give equal time to each breast by count, no matter the volume of the breast. In volumetric equality I give equal time per unit volume of breast tissue. I have talked to several leading mammary ethicists about this, but I have received conflicting opinions. What is a fellow to do?

[FZR1KG]

A man's life is very confusing and frustrating. Always being misunderstood then abused for it as well.

[code monkey]

I never understood racism or sexism.
I just see totally equal people.
As an example, if I'm talking to a woman, I stare at her breasts.
Because if I was talking to a man, that would not be insulting to the guy....

so where do you stare when talking to men?

[FZR1KG]

Depends on how cute he is.

[SciFi Chick]

Depends on how cute he is.

Do tell! What qualifies as cute to you? I am so damn curious!

[FZR1KG]

Cute chick dressed as a guy can qualify.

[Swift]

Cute chick dressed as a guy can qualify.

La de da, la de da