Dutch Racism

[FZR1KG]

That's cute.

[code monkey]

but not a man.

[FZR1KG]

Lesbians are men. Aren't they?

[code monkey]

Lesbians are men. Aren't they?

nope

[FZR1KG]

Lesbians are men. Aren't they?

nope

But they don't get men talking to their breasts if they are dressed as a man.

[SciFi Chick]

I don't see how this is any different than how I stare at men's asses when they show them off in a tight pair of jeans.

The only time men stare at my breasts (and my husband will say they are very nice) is when I wear lowcut clothes. When I'm in a loose fitting t-shirt, no staring. If you show them off, it indicates you want someone to look.

[Rommie]

I have men stare sometimes even when I'm not showing anything off- such is my rough lot in life.

[Rommie]

Seriously, this is actually a big debate in academia (at least hte parts still quite male dominated) as most women feel if they don't wear a baggy t-shirt and jeans and try to look "nice," even at a conference on a day you're giving a talk, men take that as an invitation to stare. And it totally definitely happens. (My female professors in my dept never "look nice" because one was inappropriately touched by a senior man just a few years ago for the heinous crime of wearing a nice skirt to a conference dinner.)

I think that's fucking dumb mind because I am a girl who likes to wear skirts, but even with a not-low-cut shirt one will often get comments. It's actually at the point where controversial as it is many men are advised to not comment on women's clothing at all because while most men aren't jerks there are enough these days to ruin it for everyone. Very controversial as you can imagine (and before FZ says anything, the guy who spearheaded this is actually an Aussie!).

[FZR1KG]

Damned Aussies ruining things for all men!!!

As usual there are several things at fault here.
1) Men that are genuine perverts.
2) Women that wear stuff that men see and need to constantly check every 3 seconds because it's a theoretical physics experiment.
Fabric stretched to the point of fatigue and breasts that are deformed to look like squeezed balloons reaching skyward like the Zeppelin.
I mean, who doesn't want to know the answer to what happens when an immovable object meets an unstoppable force?

Then of course there are the shades of grey in between.
Here we get stuff like women wanting one man in the room to look but instead all the other men do, then her taking offense. Not at her breasts being stared at, but that they are being stared at by the wrong guy and blaming the guy rather than her mixed message.

Or the guy that stares at all other women's breasts but ignores the pair his wife or girlfriend is concealing with a high cut top.

Who's blames who depends on who we're talking about rather than what they are actually doing and this is where the fundamental problem is.

We all have seen it and we all know it.
Sometimes a guy can walk up to a girl and say the exact same thing the guy next to him just said but instead of a slap in the face he gets a laugh or a giggle.

Even the simplest example, a guy asks a girl to dance. She rejects one, accepts another. It's a dance. Sometimes not even a slow dance so involves no contact whatsoever. The point here being, if woman is sexually attracted to a guy she lets them get away with things she condemns another for.
That is very confusing. Then when women openly condemn men that do such things the more reserved men listen and will go out of their way not to do so. As a result women think they aren't attracted to them or are gay.
Women get hit on my more assholes than decent men because they have trained the good men not to behave the way they actually want them to behave while having no impact on the men that they want to change.

Fundamental problem: No consistency in male/female relationships. Zero, zip, nada.
No one knows how they should behave, dress, approach etc other than the most basic things like don't go night clubbing naked...though that is already being tested near the limit with some outfits.
It's basically relationship anarchy and in any anarchy, who generally gets to have the power?
Yep, it's the sociopaths and those that have little regard for anyone else.
That screws things up for both men and women.

Net result, women who constantly get hit on by assholes and men that are too afraid to approach a woman or they will somehow offend her so badly she will be traumatised for the rest of her life and they don't want to take that risk.

W.T.F.

[Swift]

One of the few advantages of being a very married older male is that I can say complimentary things about a young woman, in a completely appropriate way (like yes Rommie, you look very nice in that dress - which was a topic here once) and it is not assumed I am hitting on them.

[cid]

Q -- what's the first thing you notice about a woman?

A -- depends if she's coming or going...

[SciFiFisher]

Seriously, this is actually a big debate in academia (at least hte parts still quite male dominated) as most women feel if they don't wear a baggy t-shirt and jeans and try to look "nice," even at a conference on a day you're giving a talk, men take that as an invitation to stare. And it totally definitely happens. (My female professors in my dept never "look nice" because one was inappropriately touched by a senior man just a few years ago for the heinous crime of wearing a nice skirt to a conference dinner.)

I think that's fucking dumb mind because I am a girl who likes to wear skirts, but even with a not-low-cut shirt one will often get comments. It's actually at the point where controversial as it is many men are advised to not comment on women's clothing at all because while most men aren't jerks there are enough these days to ruin it for everyone. Very controversial as you can imagine (and before FZ says anything, the guy who spearheaded this is actually an Aussie!).

It is so bad in some work environments that we are not even allowed to tell a female co-worker that her hair looks nice. Because that might be construed as sexual harassment. WTF!

[code monkey]

Q -- what's the first thing you notice about a woman?

A -- depends if she's coming or going...

ladies and gentlemen, i give you the latest official sensitive, new-age male - cid!

[squ1d]

I can confirm that if I made comments about a woman's clothing at work, I would probably get fired. But I don't really care because I wouldn't anyway, what people wear at work is irrelevant to me. Outside of work is different

[FZR1KG]

I can confirm that if I made comments about a woman's clothing at work, I would probably get fired. But I don't really care because I wouldn't anyway, what people wear at work is irrelevant to me. Outside of work is different

Which is why I always avoided that trap so instead I pointed out things they weren't wearing, like bra or underwear. Can't get in trouble for that!

[SciFiFisher]

I can confirm that if I made comments about a woman's clothing at work, I would probably get fired. But I don't really care because I wouldn't anyway, what people wear at work is irrelevant to me. Outside of work is different

Which is why I always avoided that trap so instead I pointed out things they weren't wearing, like bra or underwear. Can't get in trouble for that!

It's probably a good thing that you don't work in an office.

[FZR1KG]

I did

[SciFiFisher]

I did

The two weeks it took HR to get rid of you don't count.

[Sigma_Orionis]

The two weeks' time was because for some odd reason, nobody wanted to do Zee's exit interview.......

[Rommie]

90 Arrests this weekend in NL over Zwarte Piet

Interestingly, it was a mix of both pro and anti Piet protesters. We really need to tell the pro ones newsflash, Zwarte Piet isn't actually real.

Also, surprise surprise, the news here interviewed some kids and they all said they didn't care what color Piet was.

[brite]

I don't see how this is any different than how I stare at men's asses when they show them off in a tight pair of jeans.

The only time men stare at my breasts (and my husband will say they are very nice) is when I wear lowcut clothes. When I'm in a loose fitting t-shirt, no staring. If you show them off, it indicates you want someone to look.

I’ll stare at your breath if you want me to.... I’ll even stare at your husband’s ass.... I stare at my husband’s ass all the time... it’s a cute little ass...